10:04:03 So, hopefully everything is okay hopefully everybody is settled and ready can hear us. Okay.
10:04:12 Any tech questions or anything like that, put those into the message stream but just kind of direct them to me rather than to everybody.
10:04:19 And so, if that's okay I'm going to start the recording now.
10:04:28 Delighted to hand over to Albert.
10:04:31 Good morning everyone, I hope everybody can hear me I think we have had some technical issues here
10:04:41 Here
10:04:53 it confused because I'm looking at two monitors. And everybody me okay wait if you can hear me okay so today.
10:05:02 you about being registered for
10:05:02 the webinar into chunks. Hopefully
10:05:08 there's lots of information.
10:05:10 So
10:05:13 any questions at the end of the juicy a bit sir.
10:05:32 I don't want to squish everything into the engine.
10:05:25 So, we're just we're
10:05:31 just a little bit of detail so I put it in 1993.
10:05:39 this job. I didn't have any connections before.
10:05:58 I worked for a long time, and then detected to specialize in the last time.
10:06:01 So as you can see a bit later. down. That's when I started doing some independent work.
10:06:05 I still need my critical
10:06:09 dependent work as well.
10:06:13 So as you can see, I was juggling was juggling between different roles.
10:06:36 independent work NHS work.
10:06:41 So what I was just about finishing my
10:06:54 female testing now with.
10:07:00 Do you want to start your screen share so that we can see your slides.
10:07:07 I can see
10:07:09 it because I'm not sharing them on this screen Amy, I want to share my screen. So maybe that's why.
10:07:19 That's why, so.
10:07:25 Yep.
10:07:28 to screen
10:07:41 bed.
10:07:41 That's what I was talking about,
10:07:56 that didn't make any sense because you couldn't see what
10:07:55 the Ministry of Justice we're looking to recruit our eyes to their registered in to meet receive to provide support in ways, registered into me injuries, as I found out I don't know that.
10:08:12 I just needed to meet really so sorry I'm looking at both screens now we're getting really confused because what
10:08:19 do I get rid of these.
10:08:28 So I looked into water and find out that they using criminal proceedings, to help vulnerable witnesses communicate their evidence to the police. And in court, and a witness might need the help of an eye right because of a mental, physical disability or
10:08:48 disorder that work can be challenging and reward as well sounds very interesting, have a little bit of a look into this, the outfit also said after successful completion of the training and assessment will be self employed and the details we added to
10:09:04 a database and cases will be offered and really interested me as well, that you need to connect to a minimum of 24 days a year to the role.
10:09:13 So, well that's good I could definitely jump around with my current.
10:09:21 Having a little bit more of a look into that I submitted my application in December 2018 at an interview what kind of front court, and then the training there were seven days of direct training.
10:09:35 And then five assessments, which included a presentation.
10:09:41 So in March, 2019 trainings really interesting.
10:10:00 So there are different kinds of people on the course, and mainly speech and language therapist for the people I trained with. And some people that were specialist teachers as well.
10:10:13 So, that it is ok for a speech language therapists we know lots about assessment rapport building all things will look at later on, which are important for writing assessments, important bits for me we're working in a court, learning about police work,
10:10:32 how to interact with the police the whole system, all of that obviously is new to us, a speech therapist, so much as the training was, was focused on back
10:10:54 And usually I get about one a week so I started off just taking one case and then started reading really slowly, make sure it was really doing, and now.
10:11:11 So what is a registered into me.
10:11:14 So the intimate with special measure was created to this particular all these just as important
10:11:21 to enable and intimidated victims and witnesses to give their best evidence. So that's what the wrong was created to do the witness intermediary scheme was first piloted in England and Wales in 2004 to implement this.
10:11:40 So that's the important bit of a workplace, and how well managed I suppose.
10:11:47 So the witness intermediary scheme was rolled out nationally in 2008 was quite a new role. Switching over surface. The pilot scheme was just features therapists, I believe, but now there are other professionals involved.
10:12:03 For example, cheese, teachers, some police officers, as well.
10:12:08 All of the registered intermediaries and recruited and trained by the Ministry of Justice, and these are called registered into injuries.
10:12:36 We are is their scheme the witnessing to me to see that they have covers witnesses and defended.
10:12:43 So, this is an opponent contention for a long time.
10:12:54 And hopefully by the end of this year, there will be court appointed intermediaries. So it'll be a scheme where, similar to the registered internet your screen time portal.
10:13:01 They'll be escape similar defendants which is long overdue.
10:13:06 Having services for defendants are provided by private companies, so you might have heard of triangle and intermediaries for justice.
10:13:20 information at the end. They've got lots of information about what intermediaries do registered and non registered intermediaries independent intermediaries so they're a good organization to look at very supportive role intermediaries.
10:13:32 So that's what happens at the moment.
10:13:39 So two tier system really embrace that to structure.
10:13:40 And if anyone wants to read about that there's a really good journal article ever
10:13:48 known within any questions at the end of this bit they'll be some time, a little bit more about the witnessing to me to esteem.
10:13:55 So, this game is available to all police officers, and all private prosecution services in all areas.
10:14:05 Apparently approximately 200 registered intermediaries so not that many of us during the job, and we're all on a national database. So at one time, not all intermediaries might be working at the same time.
10:14:19 less intermediaries available, and the National Crime agency the NCAA operates the witnessing to me to scheme, and they are in charge of interaction services on behalf of the Ministry of Justice so they've matched cases between.
10:14:41 When the police come on to that slide to show you that.
10:14:43 And just to say really that request for it to meet your ease of increased future.
10:14:50 As you can see, the stats there, a big year on year increase.
10:14:54 So, yeah, big demand and future campaigns and to address gaps in serving in different specialist areas and geographical areas. So, For example, I believe the Ministry of Justice recruiting around the ethics area.
10:15:12 I'm particularly looking adult mental health.
10:15:16 In terms of getting specialized in those areas to apply to the scheme. So, the recruitment scheme I was important, obviously for Wales, they were trying to get into major is involved in Wales.
10:15:31 I think there's only one at the time that was covering Wales and I was about seven of us. So that's better.
10:15:42 So I touched on this a little bit you are registered into major is, as I said, mostly Speech Language therapists, but also from some other backgrounds as well.
10:16:01 And everyone brings their own skill and experience to the roles. So, yeah, police officers obviously have the heads up in terms of all the procedures and things that we have happening and, you know, No idea.
10:16:02 I haven't.
10:16:03 And then speech and language therapists, obviously don't need too much training in the communication events, which will project
10:16:14 national database. There's an accredited accredited training course. and we all have security clearance.
10:16:23 We need insurance to practice as well. and we need to be registered data controllers.
10:16:33 So basically, as a self employed, communication specialist, and we're working with witnesses and complainants with communication difficulties but not always, sometimes issues that more interrelated so we'll talk about that.
10:16:48 And where was facilitating witnesses and complainants to give evidence to the police and incredible procedures.
10:16:59 And our systems can be can be important, it can be the difference between a witness giving the best evidence or not.
10:17:10 And we're helping them to replace it, and ensuring the sample message put to them. And that other people are understanding their communication skills, but
10:17:28 how do we do.
10:17:31 So we need to carry out, and assessments, evaluate the witnesses abilities of needs. Again I'm reading through this because we'll have some real examples.
10:17:40 We have to think about whether we have the particular skills for that particular witness, so not working outside your sphere of knowledge is really important.
10:17:48 I would never take on a case that I didn't feel really confident that I had especially skills in that area to assess that person's communication.
10:17:58 We really need to establish a rapport, quickly, really quickly and we'll talk about that particular example, in a minute.
10:18:07 And we also need to give advice and help to the police. So, we need to communicate to them, how will witness will best communicate in the police interview.
10:18:18 We need to talk about that witnesses level of understanding, depending on, they may have age related issues. So for example, a three year old. What time was it when you were in the bungalow.
10:18:31 What time was it when you were in the bungalow. That's probably not going to be the question for three eroded, and how to phrase questions to the witness.
10:18:45 So again, very young witnesses, or for those with communication difficulties learning difficulties, perhaps, making sentences very short will be a good idea, and convoluted questions.
10:18:51 So I've got some examples in a bit.
10:18:54 And another of our role is to help with pre trial preparation. So familiarizing a witness with the court, and where they're going to be sad, how they're going to be communicating to jewelry or to the barristers, it's really important so that comfortable
10:19:10 with the environment they know what's going to happen. And in that way, hopefully, that will reduce anxiety and enable us as our eyes to facilitate communication in that situation.
10:19:26 So in summary, and it's me direct could be defined as a person who facilitates two way communication to witness and other parties in the criminal justice system, and that includes police interview, and that's it in a nutshell that's
10:19:47 obviously the witness. Lots of people to deal with so it's not just us. So that's, you know, it's important to think that a witness involved in something that's usually quite traumatic has to deal with lots of different people need to keep that in mind
10:19:59 as well as a registered intermediary where sometimes the facilitator of communication between everybody else as well, not always, but sometimes because nobody knows which language they're quite good at, joining up the jobs.
10:20:14 Making sure everyone's communicating with each other, and everyone knows what they're doing so, we will often communicate with the police, with the National Crime agency with witness support, you might be involved as well.
10:20:27 With court personnel, and obviously with the CPS prosecute Prosecution Service. If the case goes to court, and they don't always don't always.
10:20:47 So, an ri is impartial. So we are, we work for court we are we don't look for the defense for the prosecution. We are impartial and that's really important to bear in mind.
10:20:54 We're not a supporter of the witness. Our job is to facilitate that communication. So we're completely impartial don't work for one side or the other and that's really important when we're important for example that we sit in the middle.
10:21:08 So don't post it near the expense barristers prosecution barrister and make that really clear that we are
10:21:18 important. And as an artist, definitely need to be flexible and time efficient, as we'll explore the local minutes we need to gain rapport with witnesses we're working with really quickly.
10:21:33 And I'm very approachable, as well. So approachable in terms of the police officers that we work with professional, and sometimes need to be assertive, so we'll talk about reading the room, and how important that is.
10:21:47 In this particular job. So, being very aware of your communication skills and the different environments that will put in as an offline, which are often very unfamiliar environments to anyone, you know, being in a court building is hopefully.
10:22:02 Lots of people are being in a police interview, and hopefully I'm familiar to most people.
10:22:08 Definitely productive, we need to follow up on what's going on. So if someone brings you about a case and then you don't hear anything to follow that up, particularly in terms of court dates which can change a lot of perhaps everyone has not been informed.
10:22:24 Emotional resilience so we'll talk about that again a little bit later. You do need to be professional. Incredible.
10:22:34 I'd say never, I wouldn't ever touch again. If I didn't feel really sure the time you're doing.
10:22:38 I never looked outside my professional boundary in this job or any job, particularly in this job. I would never want to stand in front of a church and argue that I mean we're talking about when I knew in my heart.
10:22:52 So I'm very sure of my professional credentials.
10:22:57 Need to commit communication, that's part of our role. We need to report on strengths and weaknesses and that witnesses communication.
10:23:04 We need to enable and facilitate that child's communication there's lots of ways we can do that sometimes they're not very obvious what some examples of that.
10:23:15 We certainly need to advise and guide and that's not always just the witness, it can be the parents that bring the witness, or the carers can be the police officers might need guidance and advice from us or not.
10:23:29 Sometimes they are far more about the case and about interviewing children that we do really varies depending on how long a police officers qualified, how much they've worked with registered intermediaries.
10:23:43 How many children to be safe done. As with all professions experience.
10:23:57 And sometimes it might be an advice and guidance to your post is sometimes not sometimes they don't.
10:23:57 Sometimes quite new to interview and if your child witness and need quite a bit of advice and guidance on question.
10:24:05 As I said, we need to justify why we're saying what we're saying why these recommendations for this witness, what's my rationale.
10:24:15 And I will do that in writing to show some examples in a bit.
10:24:20 And we need to be an ambassador for the syllabus, because there's not many of us, not many our eyes, and some areas will use our eyes or not.
10:24:31 And someone said we need to be an ambassador for the service that we exist, and we can really help in terms of facilitating best communication.
10:24:41 So when not one is not.
10:24:49 Okay, so in this role, friendly, comfortable, little therapist, we're not there to be a friends. And it's really hard because we're in a very professional way, but we are not to speech and language therapist, as an ROI.
10:25:05 It's a different role.
10:25:20 I'm not saying we can't be friendly, but we're not the witnesses friend, and we're not there to shield them from difficult questions, there must be allowed to whoever's asking questions, particularly barrister must be allowed to ask difficult questions
10:25:22 at times.
10:25:24 And our job is to make sure the witness understands them not steal them from questions that we might think that sets them, for example. So that's important to think about to another friend and we're not going to advocate or support.
10:25:38 There are other people that do that.
10:25:42 people that do that. That's really difficult, particularly when it's a little girl. Last week who clearly had very interesting speech issues.
10:25:56 And I really had to check myself as I was writing down all the different processes that she speaks on disorders and thinking oh this is not my role here today.
10:26:04 My job is to say that you might be difficult to understand at times, but really not to analyze why so you know we just step away from that.
10:26:13 We're not an investigator we don't ask questions based on training, you do not ask questions.
10:26:21 We might we might try to think of a way that a question might be asked in a better way but that's different, and I'll show you how we do that without directly asking the question to witness.
10:26:43 And in this world we're not an expert witness, you might be an expert witness in another part of your and another ball with another job. But you're not an expert witness that's a different thing altogether.
10:26:46 And you're not an interpreter.
10:26:47 So what a witness might have a friend to support the case in spirit, or in court. And then I also have an advocate, or professional advocate for the services that court employ witness support speech and understand this, they might have an expert witness
10:27:09 involved in the case and they might have an interpreter. But that's not the case we are here.
10:27:21 Just to make a point to examine examine the witness. We're not there to protect the witness from distressing questions. We can't change the substance of the evidence, and we don't have the prosecution for defense We are an officer of the court.
10:27:41 Certainly not there to exaggerate our knowledge and skill, because it will be five times, I'm sure. I'm sure it was, and we don't want to stand in front of a judge and knowledge of skill and
10:27:58 how the case is matched come into the end of the big information.
10:28:02 So what happens is the energy of the police, for example, the police will send in a form to the witness intermediary scheme, and they will match that case based on our availability suitability in terms of the skills and the ability or preparedness to
10:28:32 work in a particular geographical area. So when we join, we will put on tick boxes will check boxes. Yeah I'm prepared to work with example, very young children up to teenagers.
10:28:48 Some young adults, I don't want to take this box because I've never worked, reading, especially the very specialized with autism. So I will say that I'm a specialist in that area and I didn't check that box.
10:29:04 I'm prepared to work in South and West Wales.
10:29:07 I don't work across the country to work all across the UK, so much that case.
10:29:17 and emotional crime agency into making much about 10 working days, but several much in a much shorter time so have done some ways can you be in this one TV station by four o'clock.
10:29:30 sometimes it's not sure.
10:29:38 I will not do anything except work that
10:29:45 particular number of days per year.
10:29:47 that's fine you can turn down any case that
10:29:54 sometimes we get on the phone, which is, you know, it might say that the child's got learning difficulties or adult, you know, it's just that I work with children, talking about children so it must be that important communication problems just a typical
10:30:11 child for their age.
10:30:14 And then you see them anything code here.
10:30:21 That's not the case at all. We need to have a little look at that. And it will say they've got very poor attention and listening skills, because you know, which are quite good at getting people's attention to listening.
10:30:31 So don't don't see them and they'll sit with me for 40 minutes.
10:30:34 And sometimes the same you know work sit still.
10:30:38 And when you've got a nice bag of tricks, and some it sounds quite new, you've got interesting bits and pieces maybe they actually will sit still
10:30:59 So what is it necessarily what you get. So I'll just take that with a pinch of salt.
10:31:13 Just a little slide to show how many cases are coming in, really, because there's a lot of cases coming in on a monthly basis. Quite, quite steady quite static on the six 700 mark.
10:31:38 Yeah, highest number of requests in any 12 month period since the skin was rolled out was 2019 to 20 so what a lot of demand.
10:31:44 So that was a little whistle stop tour. Sorry I rushed through that, and my screens are very distracted, I know because I've got this one here, sound on here so it's not ideal.
10:31:57 What you can, whether I look, looking into the distance because there's cameras on here sorry, but hopefully we can turn everybody, and everybody's cameras on and I stand honest people can ask me questions.
10:32:12 Okay.
10:32:13 There's a question from
10:32:19 comes in. So you mentioned that in Ireland the service also covers defendants, yes. Just clarifying is that Northern Ireland or Republic, Northern Ireland, I believe,
10:32:34 service I would you be able to kind of explain a little bit more about what the training course involves I think that is that coming up shortly.
10:32:43 What the training costs involved.
10:32:45 So, for speech language therapist.
10:32:50 The main bit that I took with things like a visit to the sexual assault referral center was, was a big thing for me to get used to being in that kind of environment.
10:33:02 Being in police stations.
10:33:05 Been in court, you know, those types of training costs and that for me, it's that really, I thought right okay, this is, this is new.
10:33:14 I need to get my head around this. And there were other days on a course where we talked about communication and, you know, we're quite good at that. So, you know that that that doesn't really stick out in my head because I know how to assess the child.
10:33:27 This is ok.
10:33:29 But there are different ways to assess and I think it was, it was on the training course it was important for me to reflect on what I do now with the speech language therapist into observe assessment.
10:33:43 But, what are we assessing for as a normal guy. So for example, you know, wouldn't go away and delivery status, you know, a formalized assessment, for example to assess the child, because what we might be some case examples, but just a little bit of a
10:34:00 flavor. So if the police officer says to me, awesome today. What do you want to know what what do we need what evidence. Are you thinking that you might need from this child what questions are you thinking about asking.
10:34:13 So, is it to do with a location is it to do with people.
10:34:19 Is it to do with a particular weapon.
10:34:23 So in that way, I know what I need to assess, so it's going to be about a location, I need to assess that Charles understand the doom and expressive language in terms of locations, it might be rooms and perhaps for example.
10:34:36 So that might be an important thing that I faced with that particular witness would be, perhaps, to be no living room bathroom, what do they call the living room.
10:34:46 for a living room and they that might be really important in that particular case, when that child's giving evidence, if they call it the room, we will know them from assessment or soundscape when they see the room, that's the living room.
10:35:05 So, does that make sense so the assessment part of the training course.
10:35:10 What we're assessing and why that's really, really important, that's a big part of the training course.
10:35:17 Yeah, those are the big business documents, but I don't have any particular slides about the training course, lots of assignment it's about asking questions that are asking questions.
10:35:30 amending questions that's a huge part of the training course. And what we will talk about that later on how difficult that is.
10:35:40 Does that answer the question a bit.
10:35:43 Yeah, Elena has asked empty just went with the witnesses, or do you work with victims to witness inspections, the App Store and use the same term. Yeah, yeah so often.
10:35:56 They don't tend to use with victims, so will tend to say goodness witnesses to incorporate both, so. So very often. Most of the cases that I am involved with the witnesses are the victim.
10:36:13 And so, I'm with the other, our eyes that you've met that you've trained with that you've encountered. Which kind of areas of SLT might they typically come from what kind of areas is strongly represented in this.
10:36:28 And I think each and every surface that specialize in pediatrics.
10:36:37 I know that, you know, There's, there's an online radio cold registered intermediaries on the line.
10:36:52 So, the areas I think are lacking in terms of
10:37:01 specialist in mental health issues.
10:37:05 Adults the adults with learning difficulties, they tend to be the areas that I've seen over my time was a number of those cases don't tend to be matched quickly.
10:37:17 Whereas the pediatric cases tend to be, I think it's a lot more our eyes from those backgrounds, working.
10:37:25 That makes sense.
10:37:28 Thank you very much and that's all the questions at the moment.
10:37:39 I wish I could get rid of these pictures because I can't see us better.
10:37:53 So we're going to move on to how am I get contacted so let's think about we'll go through a case, so it makes a bit more sense to everyone. When I started doing this PowerPoint, it was very short, and it got longer and longer and longer, and as I realized
10:38:06 there's a lot about this role, there are a lot of different parts, a lot of different moving parts, and I forgot how complicated it can it can be difficult it can be to get your head around.
10:38:26 So hopefully this will help to clarify some of the things I've said, so this will be, I've chosen to have my cases text it to me. and you can choose to have their emails.
10:38:33 We've all got secure emails with the Ministry of Justice will have your security protection all these sorts of things.
10:38:41 So this is the kind of text that I will get this isn't an actual text that I got so high. Yeah, I have a case to open up for assessment and AB, so that's achieving best evidence.
10:38:53 So that's the case interview, baby, suck. So that's the sexual assault referral center card if you will in theory for a seven year old girl age related.
10:39:02 So what they mean by that is, this is a seven year old girl, with no additional difficulties no communication issues. She just said she's got a communication skills as typical seven year olds.
10:39:14 They feel okay.
10:39:16 The. Oh, I see. So that's the officer in charge would ideally like to go ahead with the assessment between the second and the fifth and the ABA, so that's achieving best evidence the interview face interview between the 18th and 26, figuring that can't
10:39:31 Recently, between the 18th and 26th, figuring that can't match that to a timescale I'm looking for your earliest availability so when they try to match within two weeks, we've got a two weeks.
10:39:40 Scale intense work with him.
10:39:42 Would you be interested in this case, yes I was your first on the list. I'll call this case for message will self destruct that doesn't really happen but the first time I've got one of these texts or to get.
10:39:59 So this is the
10:40:02 work. So let's think so. The officer in charge contacted the National Crime agency
10:40:20 feel that they need support from
10:40:15 National Crime agency, so I can get matched to that case, this case was within my home force area so Cardiff South Wales, South Wales.
10:40:26 And it was matched to my skill set, so I can assess your girls communication skills competency but thank you very much, so much to me, I get the text.
10:40:56 So then the next thing I do is I look up all my email, the information that's been sent to me. So that will have
10:40:46 a little preview won't tell me about the case, but it'll tell me. In a sentence, the nature of the case in very little detail.
10:40:55 And it'll tell me exactly what the date of birth of the child is what Tell me where they live, but the big area, and it will tell me when a police officer is in work when they're not usually.
10:41:10 So, I then usually I usually bring the officers because I just find that easier than email sometimes email them then if they don't answer.
10:41:18 And I like to get a bit of information about the case because we need to learn what I need to bring in terms of my assessment kit, wanting to have in my head.
10:41:28 For this particular case, and I need to know when the assessment will be what they want because that is where.
10:41:34 Okay, so that piece of paper that comes through email, then I complete that little tick box at the end, I agree to this work, and I will be using my car to travel to this work or train or whatever, those kinds of things.
10:41:53 I agree to this case checklist. And that's the contract, then that's my contract between me and the police. And then the next thing is that we do the assessment.
10:42:07 Okay, so the officer in charge is usually present. Sometimes the officer in charge.
10:42:25 Isn't the interview and officer. And I really usually like the interview. So the officer that's going to do the interview, I would really like them to be there because that familiar familiarity with the opposite it's really important that can't always
10:42:26 be the case is sometimes not possible but usually it will make the effort and they'll come to the assessment as well.
10:42:35 So the assessment my support animals return and if you can hit.
10:42:45 So preparation for an assessment might want to talk to parents care is for college, but it'll be really careful, because, obviously, the parents care is for college or something else might be involved, you know, they might be.
10:43:02 So we've got to be really careful about what I don't tend to do that a lot. To be honest, it to always be with the officers permission.
10:43:14 I always get the officer so if it's a school for example, The officer Would it be okay to in school.
10:43:20 Ask them to ring school first to say that I will be calling, because obviously schools don't want to be back information to random people who read.
10:43:31 So I do that sometimes I sometimes during school after I asked it depends on the case.
10:43:36 So for example, I saw a child, a while ago with visual impairment, and I really wanted to know before I asked her, the nature of her visual visual impairment.
10:43:53 If I could ask us look at things have certainly sizes in terms of font, for example, so that was an important one for me to get a lot of information before I saw her for some I don't, I'll make note assessment first and then maybe when school after sometimes
10:44:05 I don't even.
10:44:05 I don't even parents who cares that often, again I do sometimes but not that often.
10:44:12 It depends, it's already available completely depends on the case.
10:44:17 I always have consent forms or behalf consent forms.
10:44:21 So that parents carriers whoever bringing the witness phone with me doing the assessment, and then are aware that I will be writing a report for the police.
10:44:31 I do have an assessment template which looks very beautiful and ends up being scribbled upon and nobody's there anyway. And I do put a little asterisk says, Don't forget to ask this particular one, this section.
10:44:47 So I do have a big plan.
10:44:50 Which one is sometimes, like a chart with visual impairments a lot more structured.
10:44:55 I need to think what I need to take from my kit. What do I need in my car.
10:45:09 And what will you have in my head, sometimes it's not always about objects.
10:45:11 And,
10:45:26 yeah, one of the priests want to know. So as I said that's really, really important. What about this case, do we need to know if the time isn't important.
10:45:22 And often his time is an important, I'm not the most anything about them understanding the time. Well that expressive language in, including tendencies of time.
10:45:31 If that's not important to the case. So, every case will be very, very different.
10:45:38 Some examples.
10:45:41 In terms of how Cole built and we have to do this real quick claim.
10:45:46 Some in some cases, things need to be done really quickly. So for example, there have been cases where I've done, had a phone call the night before, then they assessment.
10:45:56 The next morning, that chance had a little break and then we've done the police interview.
10:46:01 So, we need to build rapport really quickly.
10:46:05 I think there's only been a few examples where I've been able to meet a child, three times, because they needed that before we've done the police interview.
10:46:19 So ideally things done, super quick. So, in that time, with a witness of time that we need to gain their trust, which is really difficult some of these children will be in care system.
10:46:33 And there would have been traumatized. Some will be hyper vigilant because of what's happened to them.
10:46:36 It might be over friendly back, and lots of children I've seen recently, the teeny weeny.
10:46:43 Lucky lucky, you know, during good times, you just have to think, you know, it's my choice to have these risks, because some children can just flip their arms around you want to hook your legs offers mixing in, you know, those sorts of signs.
10:47:14 be detached, they might be very frightened, they're coming to a PlayStation.
10:47:10 They're not feel threatened because what's happening to them they might not trust, adults at all. You should be very anxious, could be very embarrassed and might have English as an additional language, and that can impact on that communication, obviously,
10:47:20 and it might just be thinking, discussing other professionals and other person it's another adult that I have to deal with. So I'd say this is a really big scale in terms of being an ROI, you need to think about what these children might have gone through.
10:47:33 And the best way to build rapport quickly with these children and that might mean not making eye contact with them, like mean sitting in your face away from them.
10:47:49 It might be that they want to sit right next to you want to say it, and hug your knees the whole time they talk to you. Very very
10:47:52 sharp.
10:47:59 And we do have some training in this area. Don't worry, we need to have awareness of that individuals experience, what, what they might, they might come from that morning.
10:48:11 In what mental state, they are, what they're used to in terms of their daily life we always bear these things in mind. Anyway, if you look at a speech therapist.
10:48:21 And we are aware of triggers physiological responses to stress I'm not going to talk about all these things in detail. And I put a little link at the bottom if anyone wants to contact the converse they've got lots of information on the areas.
10:48:36 I just want to draw your attention to the fact that as an RA, we keep these things very strongly at the front lines. So I told my more during an assessment or interview, is that fight or flight response that might be going on, and listening fatigue would
10:48:52 very aware of that anxiety makes us very very tired, doesn't it and then listening to questions then we've got to be quite aware but it's been All right, this this witnesses break now.
10:49:04 You can tell they're really getting listening fatigued.
10:49:08 But if we were to get breaks.
10:49:10 If there's any medication involved with that particular witness.
10:49:13 If we see them early in the morning, that's probably better because their medication is topped up, you'd be better than later in the day, food and drink.
10:49:23 Very important. I'll talk about those a bit more of a nightmare. I've never thought so much about food and drink in this job, and keeping an eye on things like meeting a friend and keeping all of these things in the front line
10:49:42 so the camera can see them clearly.
10:49:59 It's a calming effect, isn't it, you can avoid eye contact when it come around. It's a bit more natural, those sorts of things, things that we're thinking about in terms of that initial meeting with the witness.
10:50:13 Thinking about planning that a B. Achieving best evidence interview, how are we going to get the best evidence out of this chart and what can I, what skills can I bring observe in that child in those short messages, and it is a short time that we get
10:50:31 to assess them really.
10:50:35 So put this slide up because it just reminds me of all the things that I keep in my head. When I'm assessing a child so it might look a bit of a strange mess.
10:50:43 So, the second. So what bring in a child into an interview room for assessment, which is ideal. Because if you think about it, if we can get that child to relax and become familiar with the interview room during assessment.
10:51:04 They want to be more confident when we do the actual recorded interview. So, lots of people take coming up to this at home, the assessment at home because we're going to be more relaxed.
10:51:10 They will be more relaxed, but that's not really the situation they're going to be in, when they do their police interview they're going to be in an interview room, so it's best if we can do our interview in that room that they're going to be interviewed
10:51:27 him, and the can have a look round. If you don't have to get familiar with the doors and the noise of the doors, and they can see what's around with look at the cameras, we can have a little explore.
10:51:38 So savage at the top, I've got that day because of what was very hyper vigilant.
10:51:44 So if this, you know, sirens going off, they're going to be scared. There's one particular interview room that we use where the guy lives close in a residential house and he often read his motorbike up and that can release their children so often say
10:52:02 to them. Well, when we're in this room, sometimes as a manager or a lovely big motorbike and it might go.
10:52:07 Just to warn a child that might be hyper vigilant, anxious worried about everything around them that there might be a big noise and then that if he does rapid engine and
10:52:19 the up there is because another interview that we use in Cardiff, as a very noisy water pipes and I noticed when I first used to be room, that, you know, it would
10:52:34 be nice, obviously frightening the child to death he was sat next to it so I will often say to people in this room, sometimes noise it's really noisy because the water is coming through the pipes.
10:52:46 So, those sorts of things are really important I think those are observation skills of speech and under surface just to be aware of our environment and how that might impact on a child's interaction report.
10:52:59 they're going to be relaxed enough particularly
10:53:04 because the moment the pipes also has pigeons.
10:53:08 So CRI in Cardiff where they have a sexual assault referral center, their lovely rooms, but there are patients that are in the room. So I always say to children there.
10:53:18 Can you hear the patients, listen to the birds. Because if not, during the pitch recorded interview, if that's the first time they've heard the pigeons.
10:53:32 And then, halfway through listening to an important question and the pictures.
10:53:32 We want them to know from the assessment of the pigeon today, so they don't.
10:53:47 What's that noise it into the same does Importance of Being aware of the sands around, and really important. So what y'all can see lies in the middle.
10:54:03 So as I said when their attention to the cameras, may be thinking about what furniture is in the room and how helpful or not, that's going to be, whether or not there are lots of toys in the room, and for the best will in the world, I understand why people
10:54:09 have done this often in waiting rooms in the different referral centers there'll be lots of toys.
10:54:22 It might sometimes be toys in the room. I always turn up early and get rid of all the toys so I'm really mean on time. But if you think about it, yes we want the child to engage, but we want them to engage with us under our control so if they're really
10:54:31 interested in to train on fire engine, NASA fire engine and one of the interview suites, until the brain and the waiting room. That was never want to go to go to come and be assessed, or just recently wonderful this beautiful a fire engine in the waiting
10:54:46 room. So, yeah, I hide or toys, because they're not helpful in this particular circumstance, and the fish just just one more case that came to mind when we were thinking about where to assess this little girl who was very very ambitious about coming to
10:55:06 a police station. And she he said the colonel cried.
10:55:10 So we found that a major plan that she would go to more friendly environment. So, there's another interview sweet where they have.
10:55:23 And it is very very calming. But in that case, when we really thought about it and we thought about the nature of case it actually happened to be that some of her experiences, should we say, some of the photographs inappropriate photographs that have
10:55:39 been taken up waiting for fish tank. So it's really important not to take her anywhere with the fish tank. So thinking about these tiny little things that could be disastrous in terms of trying to get a child to relax and get their best evidence on food
10:55:55 and drink and toys. On the left, that's really important for whoever's bringing that witness for assessment, and then please interview for them not to promise them, or give a good feel today, you feel good for today, I'm going to take you to McDonalds
10:56:12 afterwards. What would you pick up today. You go and listen to do this with a nice place lady, and then I'll buy you a new text box. We don't want any of those things we don't want promises because then what you get is a child sitting in assessment, and
10:56:27 then potentially interview that came, I just want to go.
10:56:30 I just want to go get my Xbox, so we don't want any of them nothing special day for normal day.
10:56:50 And of course if that care or parent wants to get the geometry, maybe the next day. Fine, but don't mention it as a, as a promise for being good to an assessment or interview it's really very not helpful.
10:56:51 Sometimes, when you're too late. So, I understand that for some children it's important for them to have object, but why try and advise it is to make it small.
10:57:01 So a little clearer and it's fine to fiddle with a little toy.
10:57:07 But for example one child one time, brought a huge teddy bear to court and should have been advised told by someone else. And she brought her favorite bear.
10:57:18 And he was very big, and she was very simple and a little bit of prizes there off her course I wasn't, but it was actually a big problem. And this was in court.
10:57:29 The child was being interviewed by someone by the barrister
10:57:38 was burying her face in the bear couldn't see her face to talk to her boss. So, very important to think about those kinds of things so might think, nice surprise treat really nice for them to take it from the toy, but just be aware of the impact of that
10:57:51 and how that might not be helpful in the end.
10:57:55 And on the right hand side was thinking about that witness and Ryan you're paying for assessment. Have they come a long way in the car that they feel classic.
10:58:03 So do we need to give them a bit of time to come around which they're not going to give their best assessment or interview. If your classic, or if the food stain or to have the great old.
10:58:19 They need medication or too hot or too cold, or. So all those things to bear in mind.
10:58:23 The last slide so thinking about where they've come from, what kind of morning they've had. What kind of state they're in, emotionally,
10:58:32 the bit of the top with the people. So, who was brought witness is quite an important thing to think that there are lots of people around. So as an IRA, I'll try and manage that.
10:58:45 So if witnesses arrived with a tribe of people. And there's maybe a few more police officers than usual. I'll try very quietly gently.
10:58:56 But that might be important, and where we are. So, if we are at the child's home, and that does happen sometimes, and, you know, have been involved with children have found it just too stressful to come to a police station.
10:59:11 And then we've done the assessment and the interview recorded interview in the house, so on cameras at the bottom on camera. Please have a national.
10:59:21 So, thinking about that as well. And what's going to progress what it's going to be best for that particular witness time.
10:59:33 There we go. So yeah, pigeons the pipes. So these are not rooms that are used but they're very similar.
10:59:39 So take one of the top right, I'd have gone in there first and moved all the doors, and
10:59:47 I would have just made sure that there weren't any toys hang around and probably loop. And because that might be for that comment on the flow.
10:59:56 As a one on the bottom left looks nice, like that kind of thing.
11:00:00 And I've got my fingers Don't forget that, you know, sending a child into a sterile environment with notorious I've got my own stuff I want to both men and get them interested in.
11:00:10 And that's a good one because you can point out really quickly the cameras on the ball and the monitor.
11:00:15 And I often skip.
11:00:17 Let's face it, I think Speech Language therapist describe protect the Florida man, quite like and children feel grounded on the floor, they don't tend to recover as much as they do on chairs.
11:00:28 And if I do that if I do the assessment on the floor, and I feel the child much happier on the floor, and that the furniture in the room isn't child friendly.
11:00:36 I'll put that in my report. And then the advice that the officer also questions the Challenger and recorded interview on the floor, and that helps a lot.
11:00:48 That helps a lot. I do find that children small children will recommend juggling slip off those bucket chat anyway so we end up on the floor and anyway.
11:00:57 So yeah, those are the kinds of rumors. And as I said, Yeah, point out things like seagulls outside so I'm on camera dog. Lots of seagulls very noisy so point that out to the choppers, you might as equals you might hear the pigeons you might hear the
11:01:12 camera will be pointing out all those things that could make them, and throw them off their game in terms of what they're trying to communicate what the time to listen to.
11:01:26 So just a little case example of something that hasn't worked at all.
11:01:32 So this was a few weeks ago. Over several weeks really me and they tried to gain the trust report a 14 year old boy and he didn't want him to the police station.
11:01:45 He didn't want him to the police station. The first thing I suggested was that we did an assessment.
11:01:54 From his care home. So he agreed to that. He didn't want to be on camera lot but he did show me his face and I talked to him, showed him some of the things that we would do during assessment.
11:02:02 If he came to the police station, and how that wouldn't be recorded.
11:02:12 It will be okay it would just be me and him and we would have a chat and have a little feel for the room. So we get that and he agreed that he would think about coming to the police station some unique things that I got to the police station is one of
11:02:31 and the officer did to the care work around insert the card game in the car. You just work it in the car.
11:02:32 Fine.
11:02:33 What else could we do. So, the opposite of and I did a little video recording on my phone, of the car park and the doors and the interview suite, and where he would sit and where the interview in opposite sex and we send out to the coworker to look at.
11:02:51 Just sit with him.
11:02:54 He said to see whether that might give him more confidence to come to the police station and that seemed to be a possibility. So then, few weeks later, it happened to be.
11:03:07 He wasn't walked he got in the car and he was brought to the police station but he wouldn't get out of the car.
11:03:12 And he was brought to the police station but he wouldn't get out of the car. So the opposite and I wanted out into the street, to see if we could just speak to him through the window and very clearly very clear communication skills.
11:03:22 Press the button of the window up and just went, No, that was it. So, that case at the moment isn't going anywhere he has disclosed information to the care home workers at the moment content that they're interested in to him when he's older.
11:03:41 But that's just a case where things haven't worked, no matter what we've tried, and he's just not really.
11:03:52 Some assessment we used to be quite engaging.
11:04:00 On the surface at times, but we don't want to make this assessment as an ROI to fun. We don't want to elicit a response, because as soon as you start doing that.
11:04:06 So they're gonna, you know, if things. If you've got some mannequins for example which will do tend to use quite a lot to show positioning body parts, things like that.
11:04:21 If that Charles got a lovely p respondents, and we're going on. And these mannequins go shopping.
11:04:28 And that's nothing to do with case, we don't we don't want that, because the CPS are going to throw about actors, actresses playing with those things.
11:04:38 They're going to their imagination and this is all story. So we don't want anything imaginative and assessment.
11:04:51 We don't really want to play response I'm not saying we don't have, you know, a little bit of a few games, but we don't want full blown imagination response, because that assessment is preparation for the interview, and the interview with serious, it's
11:04:56 a serious business.
11:04:57 So, yeah, we need that report. and we need them to want to be with us.
11:05:02 But it can't be too fun. So it's a really fine line.
11:05:10 During the assessment, these are the things that we need to do as an ROI. So any plan with the interview and officer, water, they're going to ask.
11:05:20 So are we talking about location, and we're talking body parts in this case, we talking that particular script and the description of that particular Street, important or description of that particular person, or emotional vocabulary.
11:05:38 What are they going to ask about what what's this case and so every assessments different depending on the case.
11:05:46 As I said before, very important, no guessing. So that's how I stopped. Most of my assessments. And as we know in school. If you don't know the answer to your question, I think we'll have a guest.
11:05:58 I will guess it's okay doesn't matter if you will.
11:06:01 In this case it does matter. If you guess we don't give them a piece interview. We want them to say yes we know, or no I don't know the answer to that, we do not want guessing.
11:06:12 So, I will drill that at the beginning of an interview about an assessment so right and just, different things like that. I just need to check that you're really good at not guessing, which is a hard concept so ends on the edge of the chalk Don't be saying
11:06:28 I don't do it with every child for some children they just don't get it.
11:06:32 So I'll often say, do you know what my dog's name is.
11:06:44 And hopefully we get no check a few more Do you know what kind of my car's never seen it. Fabulous that's what we want, and I put text on because you're so good at not guessing this work.
11:06:52 tix on because you're so good at not guessing this work. Excellent.
11:06:53 What we don't want is. Do you know what I had for breakfast.
11:06:59 Okay. you know what happened to the years. Yes, I know what my house today.
11:07:06 No. Did you see me have was a bit too Yes, yes. So, you know, dependent on the job. I will see that for a while and try and train, not to get saved or some children you think we're not going there.
11:07:19 And we just go down the route of, you know, sure.
11:07:23 That's an important part of it the assessment.
11:07:27 I was your practice recall.
11:07:30 And again, that can, it depends on the age of the child. It depends on the circumstance. So, I tend to use something like going to the dentist.
11:07:38 Because if you use something like, do you remember the last time you went on holiday.
11:07:44 One you've got the risk of the child hasn't been on any holidays.
11:07:50 You've got the risk that something might have happened on the holiday that might be what the case is about to bear that in mind, and holidays are happy event, and they might be very good at me calling happy event.
11:08:00 What is the dentist isn't so fun. So the dentist is quite a good middle ground to us in terms of. Do you remember the last time you went to the dentist.
11:08:09 Yes.
11:08:10 Do you know when it was so that we're assessing when your questions might not know Gino way you went, he tell me who you went to so we're assessing all our wh questions there as well as the practice recall initially what you bought it from that practice
11:08:28 we call is that they just tell you in a free narrative. So that's sort of the police want in an interview, I did you know they don't want to ask many questions they want to, as we know not all children are good at.
11:08:43 Number two, as we know not all children are good at it. And so what we really want is I remember the last time I went to the dentist, it was last Tuesday, and it just took me car, and it only takes about five minutes to get there because it's just around
11:08:54 the corner.
11:08:56 And I felt quite nervous about it because I don't like going to the dentist. But when I got there.
11:09:07 It was, it was a really nicely day, and we started the way to improve it. This is what we want, you know, often get back, but that's what we want. Ideally, So if we don't get that.
11:09:13 That's what we start honing in on the specific questions Do they understand when, when what hand alone, how many times maybe I need time to get into the dentist.
11:09:28 You there, you know, these sorts of questions again depending on the child, and their age, and their ability. So those sorts of things.
11:09:37 Yes No don't know, as we said no guessing, ideally, I will also check get something wrong so I might say, Oh, that was great. Can I just check that I was listening carefully.
11:09:48 So when you were talking about going to the doctors just and what I want, there is a doctor, there was a dentist. That's what I want to make sure that that child is confident enough to correct me, listening carefully enough to correct me, and they will
11:10:05 They will challenge. The challenge an adult, if the other got something wrong, so we don't want them to be suggestible.
11:10:14 As we know some viruses can be suggested in terms of what they want in terms of.
11:10:17 So, it's really good to get a chance to be confident in the correct term and adult challenge.
11:10:29 If they get something wrong, and the police are really good at that, but obviously at the beginning of the interview. Don't forget now.
11:10:31 I might get something wrong, I don't listen carefully all the time you told me, I get something wrong. So that's another thing that we can.
11:10:40 Another thing that typically is is, most of the time is sequence then does that witness understand before and after first next last can they do that, they have those concepts Do they understand them until they express them.
11:10:56 I'll have a little look at the vocabulary, in terms of case. Okay, so if it's going to be closing is important.
11:11:05 And I look at Club clothes but I'm sure that lots of pictures of clothes or I do have a dress up that we can have a look at again the children. Is it going to be rooms in a house.
11:11:19 Tommy orange.
11:11:32 So, Again, vocabulary, depending on.
11:11:35 I color might be important for a particular case the color of something so check kind of concepts, but not always.
11:11:44 Rama pronouns. So, as we know, lots of younger children can confuse, he, she, that's going to be really important to note in my assessment.
11:11:54 Child always use it, he or she gonna have to note that down because that could be very confusing when they're giving their answers.
11:12:03 In terms of who they're referring to tend to look at prepositions or not because for lots of cases certainly it's important to other things were on or in.
11:12:20 The people were in the person within the other person. So that's that's important, and assessing that that that vocabulary as well as important, so I was on last week, and what did she say, how's it phrased.
11:12:34 Could you tell me this was an interview. Could you tell me what location is, let's say, bits were in.
11:12:46 And she said, she said, No, no.
11:12:49 I couldn't tell you that, but I knew she didn't know the word location, for example, because it was beyond with her level of vocabulary my expert opinion.
11:12:57 And so I was able to say to the officer who could could achieve maybe just show what his bits were on this, and then she she she understood the rest of it.
11:13:08 So, in on under behind in front in between words for some of the cases.
11:13:19 And tenses. Okay, understanding the past.
11:13:33 is very difficult. Let's talk about something in the present tense that's happened so, to some degree, it's important for you and feel it's important.
11:13:38 So how did you feel you know says How did it feel.
11:13:41 So things like hard and soft are important in terms of.
11:13:47 This is how it feels emotionally. So some children will get very confused if they're asked, How did it feel the officer wants dancer example they might think that they might say that they might say you say sad.
11:14:02 So it's important to assess the concepts there
11:14:07 suggestibility talked about that children going to court, if they may be going up against a barrister that that might try and lead them down a particular path, I've never seen that, to be fair, I've always seen bursts ask questions very very thin, but
11:14:31 but I know sometimes it can happen that they're looking for a bit of suggestibility. So, for some children at the older, I will challenge I've got a picture of an apple or an orange, it looks like folks it's a bit confusing thing to describe it, sir.
11:14:44 It's like Apple inside of orange. An orange inside this apple, and they'll say Oh yes, and also notice an orange. And I just want to look at their ability to argue with me.
11:14:54 Put that point
11:14:54 And then assess that growing ability, sometimes it's particularly for global planners if something's happened within a pivotal time, it can be really important for the church sure where the door was where the bathroom was where the other person was with
11:15:08 walls were so their ability to draw something's important reading not so much I don't tend to assess reading that often the case of that I've got that for several children, and I will have a little luck, and quite good that I did that, and I didn't dyslexia
11:15:27 and maybe it's useful. Occasionally theory of mind with Tina we need it for one is very important to us.
11:15:32 So let's have a look
11:15:35 at me.
11:15:40 Break anytime now whenever you whenever you're ready. Okay. Wow.
11:15:50 Okay, I didn't make a break now.
11:15:55 Lovely. There's a couple of questions if that's okay. Yes, of course. I'm just gonna say I'm one of the things I'm really enjoying about this is it's really fantastic to hate to kind of have that breakdown of that really thorough assessment.
11:16:08 I think that's so useful for not just for this but for so many different settings.
11:16:14 Just to kind of remember one of those components of what makes somebody a reliable reporter reliable community.
11:16:24 And it says there is asking, em, do you think this is a role that somebody who's just leaving University could apply for, or do you think that you need to have quite, you know how much experience would you need to have had in the field before applying
11:16:38 for it.
11:16:39 I'm just talking my opinion. Okay.
11:16:44 Because I know that companies try and go to court that work that to the employer is to work with defendants, they will often put our efforts and employ unified speech and understand
11:17:07 their companies I know that they do training and the CPD and the supervision, so I'm not going to comment on how they run their businesses. I'm sure that they've got very strong training courses, and that's fine.
11:17:22 Personally, I would not attach this job with a barge pole. I wouldn't have even considered it until I don't know where I feel comfortable. Now, I've been working 27 years. I feel I'm an expert in assessing children's communication and building before.
11:17:37 I feel that I can do this job well.
11:17:43 I wouldn't have wanted to do this job.
11:17:45 In my never ever considered it as a qualified, and I wouldn't like to put yours on it. But let's say happy doing it now with the 27 years experience that I thought that's just my.
11:17:59 And to be fair, there's not many speech therapists that will be working for 27 years so so there will be a number between the.
11:18:08 I don't I don't know, I don't know.
11:18:11 I wouldn't have been happy doing it as a newly qualified therapists, I think that would be very frightening.
11:18:17 My sense obviously I've never done this work but my sense is. This is the kind of thing, which sort of equates to when I felt I was ready to start offering expert opinions.
11:18:30 Yes, it kind of it sort of matches that sense so kind of six through two bands set top band six into band seven, and that was about that level for me.
11:18:41 When I started doing independent work that was about 2002.
11:18:47 So, I guess, when I started doing independent work, I had a similar feeling like I'm okay. Now, if some I feel okay that someone paying me for my opinion as an independent therapist because I do feel like another time to them.
11:19:01 So that was 2000 and maybe that's a bit of a landmark.
11:19:08 Maybe that's a bit of a landmark. So shall I was the question so I'm you you're kind of you know that you kind of very often you're writing reports.
11:19:14 What you're producing.
11:19:17 Maybe circulated around.
11:19:19 I'm just saying that.
11:19:20 Are you do you have to present your findings in the court. And have you ever been interrogated by.
11:19:37 I'm going to touch with head because so far I have not been interrogated but so many of my colleagues have said we will always attach a CV.
11:19:39 And I'm hoping that people are looking at CD and thinking oh she's old she's been doing this for a while, you know, probably she doesn't know what she's doing.
11:19:47 I don't know whether that's helping, but I haven't been interrogated so far. And I'm really, really careful. I've got to say I do write very long reports, because I just think that if I check everything in there, then they're less likely to challenge
11:20:14 what I'm saying. And it's worked so far. So I haven't yet, but it is possible that.
11:20:14 Oh yes yeah I've had colleagues in tears because I mean court is very adversarial. And if there's a virus to that doesn't like the fact that there's an ROI, they might feel that the ROI is there to support the witness which isn't true but it's often a
11:20:28 common misconception. They might try and put you on the back foot straightaway.
11:20:33 In terms of, so he'll you to be saying that, that this child needs your tack while they're being cross examined. What gives you the right what's your rationale for this.
11:20:45 Yeah, quite surreal and, yeah, I think it's kind of a not very nice. Yeah.
11:20:52 Thank you.
11:20:53 I'm okay so it's 1120 now.
11:20:57 We're going to take a short break. So we're going to have a break for about 20 minutes if that's okay with everybody.
11:21:03 And as we have a break, can I just remind people that we are using the this opportunity to raise some money for charities of our speakers choice.
11:21:18 So, this month, and has recommended suggested that we raise some money for the group be strapped support group so. And if you don't know, and Group B strap is it is a group of infections which women can contract when they're pregnant which have a really
11:21:39 significant effect on the baby before the babies. So in fact Group B strap is that one of the leading causes of meningitis in babies newborn babies, along with some other conditions, which obviously have a long term impact or as a speech and language
11:21:51 there.
11:21:52 So, if you finding this information interesting or useful. It can I encourage you to thank him by making a small donation to the group be strapped support
11:22:05 charity. And this is our fundraising page so if you go to just giving. com.
11:22:10 I'll put the, the link in the chat but you can search on Bert or magpies come to this page at to make a small donation.
11:22:20 So, if we come back at 1140. That would be great. We'll see you then.
11:22:28 Thank you, Amy.
11:39:47 And there's a couple of questions but just before we get going again. And I know I'm just going to start the recording and I wondered if you would just maybe kind of tell people why you decided that this is a charity that that you would like us to.
11:40:04 yes.
11:40:17 If you come see me me.
11:40:18 See me. Yes, I chose this charity because my daughter Alice was born distract me, and she was in intensive care for two weeks.
11:40:28 The first two weeks of life.
11:40:43 And, yeah, it was very scary. And she had I can't remember how many blood transfusions first two weeks of life. And, you know, it wasn't good. Yeah, she was getting 24 hours to look at one point, and we're very lucky that she survived and have totally
11:40:50 doesn't have any, any difficulties contract meningitis but so many babies.
11:40:57 So, yeah, very very lucky.
11:41:02 I think it's one of those things that you know if you talk to midwives they know about it but somehow the message doesn't seem to get through to the women about you know about, you know, what you should be checked for him.
11:41:16 available, and say in so many other countries are offered advice and treatments and intravenous antibiotics. A very simple answer to the problem and for some reason you came
11:41:36 on board with that. So, yeah, the transit this charity you're trying to do their best to raise awareness in other countries getting it right and we're not.
11:41:54 A couple of questions. And so, first of all, Elena's asking, and saying, How do you stay in contact with or what kind of network is there with other, our eyes.
11:42:09 That's a good question and one that
11:42:11 works.
11:42:11 And Kim say would you be expected to attend the court date for every case you Picabo for some of them do you just do the police piece. So many of them don't go to court.
11:42:24 The majority of them are not getting caught.
11:42:28 Maybe I do this part time. So, let's go to court more, but I would say, three, four times a year.
11:42:37 Would you take a case would you be taking on with the expectation that you would go to court if it was needed you'd have to even have to do.
11:42:46 Yes. Yes you do. But as well see. After this, after the assessment and the report for the pieces, that's closed. So my contract with the police, it's closed, and then things either.
11:43:03 That's it, you know, whenever you hear anything that ever again, or maybe in six months or 12 minutes, I might get contacted by the Crown Prosecution Service who will say this case is not progressing.
11:43:14 So, that's how it works.
11:43:18 I remember saying, have you have any experience with being an ROI for adults or do you have any colleagues that might be able to offer some advice specific to supporting adults.
11:43:30 I haven't yet just because in my working experience, I haven't worked with adults but I am sitting too. So, you know, expand my role, but otherwise specialize in working with adults, and I can certainly give you a number of a police officer become an
11:43:47 hour. Right. And she works with adults and children so if you want to contact me I can give you the details and she could talk to you about that specifically, some testing on Thank you so much, right, I'll let you I'll let us move on to part three.
11:44:01 Okay.
11:44:04 So I'm just going to go over a few of these things I'm going to go through these bits of it. So examples that my kids are going to notice back that I keep in the back of my car.
11:44:13 At least one back.
11:44:15 So, the kids are used for assessment is interaction a conversation from Maryland. I didn't have some pictures in there, different ones aimed at different age groups and age appropriate pictures for things like sequencing body parts dentist scenario, just
11:44:32 started picture and things like can you describe, so do interesting descriptive pictures that I keep in there. I've got a preposition is 10 so I might ask you to put things in or behind in order under, and then tell me where it was a minute ago magnets
11:44:51 with older children or just couldn't sing and play doh blue tack being, those sorts of pitcher Titans quiet pitcher titles are important, because I recommend pitcher tights and it's going to be quite a thing.
11:45:05 So it doesn't interfere with on tables when you transfer someone's voice, please interview in court and freely belts are quite good for children that maybe don't want to answer any more questions and then we say or can you just answer the green question,
11:45:21 and we throw the green feeding back into the bin, you know, things like that.
11:45:28 The body map is sounds complicated but it's a gingerbread man correct person. And that's the body map.
11:45:55 And then I've got mannequins of different sizes that you spoke if used always but, you know, that can be very very useful in terms of explaining things visually when it's difficult for a child to talk about
11:46:14 those except feel versus feel is important so in my case, I got things like 10 tin, say, how does this feel, can you hit it How can you hit it softly Can you give me a soft versus a Howard high five, so that I know that they've got that understanding
11:46:37 of different force, if they're going to talk about someone hitting them. Was it hard with it. So, those sorts of issues. We need to explore an assessment, but obviously an assessment we're not talking about the case, the massive discuss anything about
11:46:52 the case we're not referring to that, too. So big objects like, you know, give me a high five been asked to give a
11:47:01 high five is quite people discovered so confident 10 now, we're hitting the target with a stick that's a bit.
11:47:09 And also things like two bananas which are hard and socks which is So, which will help to describe things, that's difficult
11:47:24 across the assessment kit and looking at things that we would always look at in terms of Speech Language communication. Attention comprehension expression what standard on verbal communication, very important, and a section that in my report and emotional
11:47:33 management, and they Okay, they very confidently to me, and the officers as new adults are relatively new. They have a very tangible things to comment on and observe, disability, and there's always something else.
11:47:52 So in terms of writing one report with recommendations for the police interview. As I said, we think about the environment, what's important in that environment to remove all the toys before they get hit, for example.
11:48:03 And another thing that was important was that a child was very obsessed.
11:48:10 Often people will very kindly have the biscuits when a child gets to an interview sweet to an assessment and wouldn't be a good idea for that child because she if she knew them or biscuits they're building somewhere.
11:48:22 That's all she would have focused on and assessment an interview would have been in the vicinity.
11:48:43 I can sympathize, but not try to get us concentrate on assessment and interview so I specifically Brian, the lovely lady things before the biscuits can we have to discuss today don't offer this good drink is fine but don't offer anything please criminalize
11:49:02 and I need to recommend, more questions the child understands, he's likely to understand and have someone needs to be more defined and some might need to be avoided breaks, if maybe there's gonna be lots of breaks, or if we give us to go to break and
11:49:08 go back to see the toys in the waiting room or their mother, they might not come back. So actually it might just be best to try and get it all done in one props, so I would have thought if we were going to use things like meditators hands to touch anything,
11:49:39 if I don't put them in there. And then if it does go to court and we need them to be another suggestion is to agree to those items being there and understand the rationale for why I recommend.
11:49:40 So the instructions for pieces of the report would be something like this that I've been asked to assess Kelly's communication abilities to indicate whether or not Kelly has the ability to communicate her evidence, in this case, and if so, indicate whether
11:49:55 the use of an ROI is likely to improve the quality completeness coherence and accuracy of evidence advised the police are the most effective way of communicating questions to Kevin and make recommendations as to other adjustments to enable the best communication.
11:50:11 So that's my job at this point. And that's what my report will show that's very can see that. But what I would take like being made the recommendation.
11:50:30 You can see that. But what I would take would be, make the recommendation. I would have an example of that, and then a rationale as to why I'd advise something so here's what I can actually see wasn't easy to my eyes Williams I think it might be wondering.
11:50:33 Okay, so our recommendation for example might be witness to be allowed to manipulate glue chapter in her interview.
11:50:40 The example would be medium sized blue attack, to be the role stretch for the with intermediary to provide this, and then the rationale for that would be manipulating blue tick, tock help with the witness to focus to an assessment.
11:50:57 So that's just an example of some of the recommendations that I make. And there might be a lot of recommendations before the interview so things to prepare the child before the interview, so making sure they've had a banana, making sure they're hydrated
11:51:23 making sure that the child had enough time in classic to adjust to being in the building before we start the interview, planning with the officer. And then there would be recommendations for the actual interview the introduction.
11:51:37 In terms of truth and lies which will move on to the minute and what props we're going to use, then there will be recommendations about the question. And then that would be recommendations as to any crops or additional things that we might use in that
11:51:44 interview to initiate best communication.
11:51:50 So just a little quote integrator will need to pitch the language of concepts used to a level. The witness can clearly understand, while the focus should be on recognizing and working with the witnesses capabilities, rather than limitations.
11:52:03 So the same for any language target reader.
11:52:06 So we achieving best evidence we add.
11:52:12 What are it to manage.
11:52:15 First is a people involved. So, It could be that on a particular day. I can focus on the child. That is my focus at the end of the day, but sometimes that child giving his or her best evidence might be impacted by the people that are also around, so it
11:52:33 might be, it might be that I'm stressed, I arrived and I got lost and I'm stressed, so I need to manage myself first before I focus on a child.
11:52:42 It may be that the carer, that's brought that child is highly anxious tearful couldn't Park, you to manage their anxiety first because that's going to impact on a child's interview.
11:52:53 If we don't manage that. It might be that the officer had a terrible night they've been on nights they've only just arrived at the interview they haven't had a chance to review what this case was a virus they might not know the child very well, and they
11:53:05 might just need some time to just calm and chill and think, and maybe they can help their being a calming influence on Genesis is all in order which is fine.
11:53:17 It might be that there's another officer there that I need to talk to about the case and that's questioning why I be doing certain things and recommending that there were no biscuits in the building that day.
11:53:28 And it might be that all social worker or someone else's that and they want to come in on the interview about this because generally it's not so helpful to have more people in there that is necessary.
11:53:43 So I think only on one occasion, as a child had another person who sat in the piece interview part for me.
11:53:51 So, you just need to read the room, assess the situation whose where is everyone feeling okay, does this person need to have a little bit of a chat and a column, we do those, those things in mind all the other people.
11:54:09 As I said, Get into the carriers are the people bring in the children don't promise them a present for being good in this interview. Don't bring.
11:54:15 Don't bring their iPads.
11:54:19 Make sure they've got enough to drink, but maybe not have six bottles of water for the entire year because that's also toilet trips to the interview.
11:54:29 Good promised them sweets don't give them sweets to cheer during the interview.
11:54:33 These things will affect their evidence, they've got to be considered and managed
11:54:40 to internalize
11:54:43 it. It's a difficult one. But where we are, is that for children it's evidence to be used in criminal family proceedings they need to demonstrate their understanding of the difference between truth and lies.
11:54:57 There are many many issues with this and papers written on children's understanding of truth and lies and even if they understand what's going to stop them telling the line during the interview anyone, but this is where we.
11:55:09 So thankfully, this company doesn't actually press play.
11:55:19 Just before we start on share screen Did you, did you click that button for share computer sound.
11:55:28 Let's give it a go.
11:55:29 I think we'd be in presentation mode you're, you're in order to play.
11:55:42 Nothing presentation.
11:55:51 Something's happened. This isn't good.
11:55:56 Right.
11:55:57 What can we all see, I can see my screens from way back when. Now, moving through unless Okay then.
11:56:05 Let's get back to I don't know why.
11:56:14 More time if it doesn't work.
11:56:34 It was only one thing that he said.
11:56:48 I should never try
11:56:54 you to walk away me.
11:56:56 Okay Oh good. So, if you go to the down bottom left hand corner of the slide. Yes.
11:57:04 No run of your slide.
11:57:09 Yes, let's get rid of that video, just showed a little boy, taking some sweet, the only sample that is didn't take my sweet. And then the girl says, No, which is a clear line.
11:57:23 Okay, so it's very visual.
11:57:26 There's not much language to understand the peace in the past.
11:57:30 And they do tend to still use it sometimes they'll have script about Johnny kicked all through Linda's window, and it smashed. When Linda said, Did you smash my window, then Johnny said no I didn't special window, and it is quite, Quite wordy.
11:57:50 And it's been quite a lot of research to say that the children under seven. They don't tend to understand, it's too low, it's too much the linguistic level is too high.
11:57:58 So thankfully, try and golden lovely people are trying to develop those little videos. And so I've got those app, downloaded to my phone, and then I can play that at the beginning of a police interview to demonstrate a child and status truths and lies,
11:58:15 so I will play the age appropriate click. So that was the best sweets, but there are some that back to them stick and you know the same age appropriate clips for for children, young adults.
11:58:28 We play it, and I say, Did he tell the truth or lie. Or don't you know, and that's really important because as we know, Some champion if we say, can you tell the truth or lie to copy the last thing you said, anyway.
11:58:43 Copy the last thing you said, anyway. So bit of a broad measure, but it's something that has to be done so that's what that's the video that an example of a video that I'm going to show. So that's a beginner, and that's on camera.
11:58:56 During the face interview. And in my recommendations in the report, I can write what I think it's probably best at least to try to establish truth and lies, rather than the position that the police tend to have in their interview locket.
11:59:11 So from that point, what the police want will be in a way, and the interviewing officer will be usually opposite the witness and say, I'm setting you may be on next to the witness cameras of all be going within all of it.
11:59:30 Yeah, just to say it but at the beginning of an interview. When the police say that batch number and the time and location, and I introduced me and my role and I have to say that as well.
11:59:41 I would tend to recommend children actually the reason for that, because they wouldn't understand that it's quite formal and a bit scary. So, we will tend to do that, and then get the child and.
11:59:51 And what what the police really want.
11:59:55 And they want that communication. So tell me, though sometimes they tell me why you're here today or do you know why you're here today.
12:00:04 Sometimes children don't really respond well to that and say no, that's no good stuff. So, the best one is going to be where the case of people say so.
12:00:13 So tell me about what happened with all that or something like that, you told me about this. Can you tell me about, and then ideally what you want is for that child to use lots of description lots of detail, but to other words that have check you in my
12:00:28 book have check just in case.
12:00:31 Some might say can you give me more detail about what he said oh they don't understand what you tell me. Well, they don't understand. Can you give me more description.
12:00:43 So, some offices, they're very good at that. Anyway, and they would use those terms but for other offices, they might. So, you know, it's just for me to present.
12:00:51 Just Just tell me everything. Tell me a bit more, you know, those sorts of things rather than give me more detail about that situation.
12:00:59 So if the child doesn't get that free narrative, and just go to shrug, or something like that, then the opposite will start asking questions, and they'll go from quite open questions to quite close question so you don't want leading questions.
12:01:19 And again, the police are in charge of all that, and I wouldn't dream of interfering. But what I do do is I wanted to wonder, which is a pair. So for example, services, these are ones that have happened quite recently.
12:01:30 So the interview and officer might say what position where do I know from assessment that that position. So, witnesses.
12:01:40 And I'm like, say today to the officer, not to the witness. I wonder have a meeting.
12:01:45 And then it's up to the officer then to put that question to the witness. Can you tell me how they can you show me how they moved, using the mannequins okay so another example.
12:01:58 The officer was it made.
12:02:01 Let's try to touch me she was six but she had quite a lot of language delay, and she wouldn't have known I knew from assessment because I checked she didn't understand things like, what's it made of metal.
12:02:15 So, which is good.
12:02:31 I say to the officer. I wonder what color it was, I thought maybe that might help. And what else what color it was she was able to say it was silver, and that she didn't have the key and then very good description of that so that's just an example of
12:02:34 So that's just an example of how I remember asking a question that's not our role at all. We don't need the interview. Ideally, we're quite passive in age people might not need to interview.
12:02:51 But just in some circumstances, what can really help just read this question,
12:02:56 which was excellent, obviously didn't need any intervention at all.
12:03:03 The witness was fine. I might do that.
12:03:07 I just to
12:03:25 Show us, or what, or maybe write it for some children they've got to talk about quite embarrassing things quite traumatic events, and they want to write a particular word, they're not happy to stay on land, which I always have white card.
12:03:30 Because they're easy to see. And we would either show camera or the camera will be able to see it anyway. The police within 10. seconds.
12:03:39 I'm not cool. Obviously, Always looking at a child's attention and listening skills, you know when we can see children Griffin calm I probably lots of you and this is quite long isn't it.
12:03:52 But we might say, I don't think, X was listening then, if there was a question and if they didn't answer that, but I think they could understand it, she just wasn't listening, I might say, Well, listen to Katy.
12:04:10 Some I say that again hopefully get the response. I'm not saying, as I did the other day, and x doesn't understand located
12:04:17 a different way. And I might say, I think, I think we need a break now just need a little bit.
12:04:24 So look at some examples.
12:04:28 I tend to be not clear, otherwise might intervene in different ways on it. Not everything here but.
12:04:35 So we don't interview as well.
12:04:53 So, please close close, I invoice the place. And as I said if the strong enough evidence during that into the case to proceed. Then I might have notification of that further down the line, very variable in terms of which will go to court and which ones.
12:04:57 And how long that might take
12:05:01 pre trial, what can we see this bed. So, I registered it to me drink is a special measure in court.
12:05:17 And we can be appointed it Charles and it has a learning disability a mental disorder or physical disability.
12:05:16 So we have a special mention that children are entitled to and the other people.
12:05:23 So if we need to assess, again, to try, so it might be that we've done an assessment, but by the time this goes to court. They give us older and obviously the central, and that's a big difference in their development in terms of speech how much communication
12:05:38 isn't it. So when we assess again for trial if we need to do that, we need to look at attention, listening and concentration ability to process information under stressful circumstances.
12:05:53 Sequencing skills can be very important, obviously their response to questions, their ability to correct mistakes if you've got a barrister trying to recover.
12:06:03 Maybe try to be a little bit suggestible, and we want to, ideally want to witness.
12:06:08 That wasn't that didn't happen. I didn't say that.
12:06:13 It will be nice, and some children do some children definitely do.
12:06:18 Be nice. And some children do some children definitely do. And the ability to say, I don't know what I don't understand, and do not guess we don't want guessing.
12:06:25 So this would be an example of the front page of a cult report. So we're talking a big step up from a police report to a quote because these are very detailed particular bits that we have to include.
12:06:40 It takes about three to four hours to complete. I'm trying to get quicker but they just take about three to four members, maybe longer.
12:06:52 It includes things like the chronology, the chronology and when I initially received a referral from the police to going through to when the amendments will need to report recommendations that would be one of the sections that we would include the sections
12:07:09 sections would be a summary of findings and recommendations, my assessment conclusions of that recommendations for special measures so that would be fun.
12:07:20 Alright so this put this person or individual would benefit from having an Ohio maybe, maybe they don't need us. Obviously, you know they don't always need us and we need to be able to say, I think we find on their own.
12:07:33 If you think that they would be.
12:07:36 It's a little declaration.
12:07:39 Touch the CD so people can see that we know what we're doing. And there's also some feedback forms and a description of the world.
12:07:48 So just a little example. So, again, the recommendation.
12:07:57 The examples of that. And then a rationale. So that should not be particularly interesting activities towards the end and TV in the waiting area shocking.
12:08:03 Just an example of something that happened tonight I learned from a new bag of tools provided by support worker who was lovely to meet you and what's waiting would be kind, but not helpful and encouraging her to produce our best evidence that this is
12:08:17 a real life example of something that happened in court.
12:08:20 real life example of something that happened in court. While the chocolates we've taken this new bag of toys, was just very interesting and why on earth would she want to go into a room then to give her evidence, when there was
12:08:35 another issue I found in court to say they very rarely have Charles nice chair so I bought one and it was like you
12:08:44 prefer to remain still feel grounded in security and in question. She should have us chops as chair to sit on or be allowed to sit on.
12:08:52 Alright, good to take one of the course code it may be on a child, so her abbreviation so that's the police have to be so there's my evidence, because I saw her in her place interview, she was some adult size 30.
12:09:10 up to the floor.
12:09:12 The adults passed down goals, and perhaps impacting on her ability to focus and get best evidence. So these are lots of things that we need to bear in mind.
12:09:25 And for this particular witness. It happened in the past. She was kept waiting to get her evidence so long that really.
12:09:31 She actually gave any information at all. But it wasn't a recall so she was due to give her evidence.
12:09:37 And she was brought on a previous occasion at 930. That's a long time to wait for sexual assault.
12:09:45 Specifically recommended that didn't happen again.
12:09:51 Little bit about questions but I might put in this as an example their questions related to times date situation will need to be simple avoided. So for example, was it that time
12:10:02 marker, a routine, rather than will take evening which she didn't understand.
12:10:08 And again over to get that rationale.
12:10:11 So, for example, it would be appropriate for her to to listen to you said xdy was that before you got into bed.
12:10:21 Before After I checked that what happened.
12:10:24 to last, and I would reference those, the main body of my report,
12:10:43 which questions with preamble allow us to do Lex chat.
12:10:47 Questions with preamble allow us to do live chat. So you told us, a DMC and the x y Zed happened and Tammy said X ray said, Can I ask you about Tom.
12:10:55 So something like that not appropriate very long chart listen to the beginning and keep language to a minimum be clear about topics signposting, I'm going to ask you about x.
12:11:10 So again the rationale heightened anxiety can impact on a person's ability to listen and understand. There is a young child interacting with keeping her was clear and simple it's vital to her communicating.
12:11:23 Avoiding Tax Questions, is another one. So, x wasn't in the bedroom was very confusing Roma linguistic tricks going on. So making sure things are very clear.
12:11:35 So where was that was really in the bedroom would be a lot more easy for her to understand, you sure to push it, you know, I'm sure.
12:11:50 In the factory clear ideas for her to understand.
12:11:52 So, we're not above, with all these people that were during the era, and witness, we will be in the live link room. Usually, below the court Secretariat completely the separate doors, so that the witness wouldn't bump into the defendant able to see the
12:12:10 defendant we can make absolutely sure of that. Even screens if, if necessary, we can recommend those in our report to selectively with attend a table in the church and really account
12:12:38 mess with which can be a problem. So it's managing those sorts of issues as well to deliver that best to court. That's what it looks like.
12:12:44 So, so some more examples of things that are not recommend waiting times, shiny blue track to help her Keep calm focused icons, total icons to protect.
12:12:59 Whenever you can ask for a break to that she needed a break, things like that visual icons might be used and again, these would have to be another report.
12:13:15 And they would have to be read by the judge you for regular breaks, thinking time after each question.
12:13:17 And then potentially impact a quarter by multiple social skills. So, it's important idea child can do court visit before the actual trial to have a little look around and think about the quarter tire that they're going to be very scared by works
12:13:39 very well to people when they find it quite fascinating and also attention. Better than taking it off but it does. So that's another thing that we need to be putting on report.
12:13:47 People will find it quite fascinating and also attention. Better than people taking it off. So that's another thing that we need to be putting on report. If we felt it was detrimental to the child's communication, or quarter.
12:13:53 We can recommend that.
12:13:56 Well, that's
12:14:07 court familiarization visit would be ideal.
12:14:10 We can practice questions through the live link. If that's if that's important in court proceedings often about one o'clock.
12:14:21 The people will let us into practice and that would be questions like, do you know what I have for breakfast. Nothing to do with the case.
12:14:28 Practice.
12:14:32 So,
12:14:36 my court reporters and attendance so really happy to be comfortable in court was, that was quite good.
12:14:50 She was taking the opportunity to try and she enjoyed the attention she was more focused when he was wearing the week so that's good to know which case it's fine for everyone to be perfect.
12:15:11 So as we're coming up to trial.
12:17:07 we split that up. So for example, and what amendment might be and there's no completely correct answer to this. It's a darker after they said something might help could be.
12:17:07 Did you see why it said, Did x tell you that why his dead. Did you tell me
12:17:07 know.
12:17:00 Others are easier so amending things, and making them look simple, and he was pulled by x. So changing that to detect.
12:17:15 What was your location at the time the phone conversation.
12:17:14 He talks to.
12:17:42 just a little quick example of two children, two teenagers with learning difficulties that the first core piece that I actually like to 115 17, very different.
12:17:51 One was initially dismissive.
12:17:42 And I had to get down to it was quite scary to try and build a rapport with her so it's kind of challenging part of my job.
12:17:55 My job. Most the time was to help you to believe, and to gain trust and to keep her calm, and that that worked really well, she was much calmer without money, which was a challenge because her sister was much karma with them.
12:18:18 them being a part one of them being a part of that family that worked well. And
12:18:22 he loves me so we really good listening skills.
12:18:24 No one could really notice that the 17 year old with learning difficulties, there was absolutely nothing was still the same.
12:18:34 So she was still renting, and that cluster and it's really important in that particular case because she was talking about about sky TV, and lots of the question was about, if ground out to the stores sky TV, and she was talking about study.
12:18:54 could potentially confuse the two words and confuse the barristers so our job to listen out for things like that and maybe Repeat the word again
12:19:05 rules here and just to say that the ground rules hearing is where the judge, and the prosecution expense report recommendations, say, sounds reasonable, or no, you suggesting that for at that point as well they should be guided us on the questions which
12:19:24 I didn't he would have seen the questions but sometimes at this point, it might be recommended that the questions are shared with you.
12:19:37 So trial job is to facilitate that communication during the trial. So we do a system and given him evidence, but monitoring that child's needs, are they Okay Are they listening really carefully, are they sitting still
12:19:54 kind of microphone pickup and voice to intervene if there's a communication issue or not, that might not be a communication issue.
12:20:09 Just a couple of examples tone of voice. So, you run out I believe the witness without some open a lighter tone. That's great. That's quite intimidating might not give them best evidence feeling that the person talking to them as
12:20:33 it's going on, and making sure that the baddest is, if the witness time to think that's what needed to be my second question, Your Honor.
12:20:50 That question. So there's just some examples of
12:20:45 things that help tend to be the live link, not being in that courtroom.
12:21:05 charge of the tech.
12:21:09 That goes wrong, a lot, surprisingly, stressful to make sure that all the equipment is working before we bring the child in.
12:21:18 Definitely.
12:21:22 Tech issues which are not so clear questioning that level of comprehension, sometimes really helpful.
12:21:32 ways, and it's research studies to show how common that can be just a visual reminders of the rules, talking, even say if you don't know, don't guess.
12:21:45 You can go.
12:21:48 Okay, sounds good.
12:21:51 Minister of Justice what was their management should we say so we are self employed. I'm not going to start talking about the comparisons between drivers is too much.
12:22:04 But, yes, we are self employed.
12:22:06 But we do submitted on your CPD log which is rated now goes to the Ministry of Justice, just submitted us for this year.
12:22:15 They do collect evidence feedback forms on a scrimmage case, and we updated, and we get feedback on that, and we get.
12:22:24 What we're asked to do a peer review of reports and next year.
12:22:37 They also provide registered intermediaries on the line. When cases aren't matched or come up with this discussion groups there are three important documents.
12:22:56 Solid posts to research, things like.
12:22:55 And what about.
12:23:00 So when I was doing this I was reflecting on what skills, I bring to this role.
12:23:07 What, what are the important skills that I use a lot in this role. I thought that might be good to reflect on for my family.
12:23:16 And I think it's these highly developed, listening and observation skills keeping an eye on everything if that if that cake is destruction that chocolate listening to the officer, I need to get rid of the cake rather you know tiny little details that
12:23:28 we need to focus on user experience help.
12:23:35 I think I'm not good at it but gaining report.
12:23:39 I think children tend to not want to run away from me so that's quite useful and officers don't tend to find me too, boxy. So I think that's good.
12:23:50 I am a detailed report writer, which has been criticized in the past.
12:24:09 And I think it works well for this role, and I didn't quite feel autonomous, I like to work as a team, and also that time to reflect on my own. And I think this job can be quite a lonely road
12:24:09 needs like inform assessment. I'm not tied for assessments, I can assess quite quickly what a child needs and what the police need for this particular case, I'm quite flexible if I go over things I should have intervened.
12:24:26 I should have done that I think I'm quite the case to case being quite imaginative on the spot, in terms of, oh my goodness, this part is this just a whole new issue what can we do about this because they're not going to be the best shoe and imaginative
12:24:42 it will take off my shoes and everything's imaginative on the spot and solutions to problems solution focused.
12:24:50 I am quite task, finish has done. So, although I like having a caseload that I see for a long time as a speech therapist and see how far I can take them in this job, it's very different mics future.
12:25:03 And I might never see them again I quite like that to actually
12:25:26 that to actually organized but flexible emotionally resilient is quite important in this role and really important not precious, but professional that ability to be doing so, you know, don't ability to not worry about
12:25:25 making friends with a dog, because that's going to be having to befriend the child and maybe checking out a few swear words because you cannot funny and that's how she's going to gain rapport with you.
12:25:35 But then that's a big thing in front of a judge, where I wouldn't make any sense at all, and I will put on my profession I do not what I'm talking about.
12:25:47 I think that important that someone asked about support. So, registered intermediaries online the video forum is very supportive. We've got really active WhatsApp groups, and the people are trained with the people that I will go to, in terms of support
12:26:08 in the first instance, for example, we had one the other day where they said, and with with this officer. In this particular case, and I'm judging myself because I think we've taught you this, but, but that's not happening here please help, and that's
12:26:18 Very, very helpful supportive people, the intermediaries for justice websites very good, and they have like a training courses that. Excellent.
12:26:41 There's a whale's ri regional group now, we didn't have any group because the group.
12:26:46 But now we're in a group with 11 or 12. We've got some people in North Wales and. And so from the middle is joining us.
12:26:55 What helps my long suffering husband who I do tend to talk to about things that confidential sometimes but he, he wouldn't say a word and sometimes you just need to say this time today I can't believe this chart went through this
12:27:27 polities common ground, and I support animals, not lying on the floor.
12:27:24 So the recent training and CPT with trauma informed practice, you don't have to do this you know the different things that most people do.
12:27:43 And I've done a course on working with dependent, haven't done any work with dependence yet, but I might in the future. It's something I might consider, especially with the new laws coming in lecturing about appointed intermediaries reflective practice
12:27:50 practice in particular cases, not so helpful more helpful than anything else.
12:27:56 And of course I'm no police then there's been other research webinars, based in different countries.
12:28:05 Every case is a different dining experience.
12:28:22 I just listened to deal with it in the moment.
12:28:26 I deal with it in the moment. And I understand that this wasn't for everyone. Some people asked me difficult to do.
12:28:36 Being impartial must be impartial.
12:28:38 So I juggle weekly basis with my other jobs. And so I also work in the team for for audience you know democracy.
12:28:53 For the NHS and independence for speech therapist on Wednesday with a little caseload, and I do some electric current metal a session or basis as well so I jumped on my own I was with those things.
12:29:00 So always write pencil, very imaginative with my time management.
12:29:15 Forward plan, but I'm fine, things changed due to key in trials will be canceled last minute, or witness will say a compliment.
12:29:28 admin practice so important to get everything together in different bands of different bands for different jobs and that's what works for me. Typically my be maybe, and it has been this week, but Dan HS Tuesday and Wednesday I did to my independent work
12:29:43 I got to tomorrow two places we've done their assessments, we're going to do the police interviews tomorrow and Sunday, Saturday, I might be doing another case, because that's just committed and police officers only working this weekend, and then it's
12:29:58 only for a while, usually look at weekends, but this case might be in the afternoon. That's okay.
12:30:06 And yeah, trials will tend to pitch around so if there's a trial that runs Monday through Wednesday I'll tend to do a test on Friday, really understanding manager that is fine.
12:30:18 So if you want to be an array. I think I should just ask yourself, can you stay within your skill set. I think that's so important. Can you say no.
12:30:28 I have some automation, take on too much work to do a little bit stressed.
12:30:34 Take out too much work to do a little bit stressed. You enjoy being alone, work on yourself motivated to reflect it really good at building report, imaginative ways to assess is important, eye for detail.
12:30:49 I for detail. And can you read the room. You know when you have to show your skills up to just not unless someone else, obviously knows what they're doing and doesn't mean to to it, just amazing to watch, and they intervene if necessary,
12:31:08 just to sum up my last one I find this role, rewarding, I find a high level of job satisfaction. it's challenging at times it challenges, my personality, which is a naturally gregarious or city or assertive and I have to be sometimes more than I've ever
12:31:27 ever been in any role.
12:31:39 I found it interesting so interesting, definitely made me more reflective and confident and it lets me use the skills that I have a Wednesday, and a whole new way and I'm so interested in how I get crossovers between all my different roles and all the
12:31:44 shops at home is young people can be. It's such a privilege to help them and their communication.
12:31:53 So any questions while you look at this point.
12:31:59 Oh, thank you so much that was amazing. I think one of the things that I'm really struck with is, I love that format of that really simple format for kind of, here's the issue here's the example his recommendation.
12:32:12 And I'm thinking, I would like to see all reports like that, please. I'd like to see all HTTP reports like that I like to all reports like that. Absolutely.
12:32:23 Because I think it's a lot of people's least favorite thing about being an ROI report.
12:32:30 Just to have it you know that level of detail but without all the waffle waffle. I think this is testing. So there are a few questions if you're if you're okay for that.
12:32:39 Absolutely. Okay, so, um, Kim is saying, so if you're so for example assessing body part vocab, and it causes the child to start to disclose information to talk about what's happened to them.
12:32:54 How would you manage that happens.
12:32:58 It can happen, and we would say, oh, we're not talking about that today, so you can just say that when you talk to Katie.
12:33:06 I totally change the subject. Yeah sure, shuts it down.
12:33:10 Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
12:33:12 And I'm wondering by the same token, whether you might get a sense that child has been primed by a parent or caregiver that they have that they're going there to talk about what has happened and that might.
12:33:25 Is that something that happens a lot.
12:33:29 And that's for the case to judge.
12:33:38 Yeah, you can tell when a child's been coached to say what they're going to say they've got a script. And it's not really my role to unpick that. But, if the officer was to say to me, Well I mean I asked lots of questions and they just kept saying the
12:33:48 same thing over and over again and you know I feel that that's quite a sign of being a coach, and I might say, well, this, this and this. So, you know, try not to, to say what I think in those terms but given given my observation is in terms of backing
12:34:13 up what they're saying.
12:34:12 I'm a JD login.
12:34:21 When you had your interview for the ROI so you had that first interview at the court, what kind of questions Do they ask you what kind of things.
12:34:34 you know when you've been to an interview and then you
12:34:36 have something I had to go away right.
12:34:38 That was it. So, they gave me a bit of information about six different scenarios to go to break some recommendations based on those pick pick a couple.
12:34:57 So one of them had in there that the child was on medication for ADHD. So in the recommendations I was careful to say, you know, make sure that perhaps this was done in the morning and make sure that the medication.
12:35:05 So, those kinds of things.
12:35:07 Our ability to to pick information or sort of scenario, make recommendations with the rationale straightaway they were looking for that.
12:35:18 They have questions about how you manage the emotional resilience needed for the road. They didn't hide.
12:35:34 asking.
12:35:38 I can see that this is if somebody is looking to work in the criminal justice within the criminal justice service as an SLT so working in prisons and things like this that this will be a stick job to have while you're while you're gathering the, the experience
12:35:57 to apply for those jobs. And what do you think that it is possible to do this kind of work with alongside a full time SLT job, or do you think that it's, it would require you to have kind of part time and a lot of flexibility in order to do that, part
12:36:15 time and flexibility. Yeah.
12:36:20 And the other, Mr eyes who you know do they tend, it does it tend to be no they they works. The only accept jobs that are like two days a week and things or how does that fit in when there's a court date.
12:36:43 So the people like me that worked. somewhat to do both.
12:37:02 works for the NHS, and
12:36:56 I think full time.
12:36:59 And obviously without wishing to ask you, you know what's in your bank account. And there's the pay is it comparable to NHS SLT work.
12:37:08 There's the pay is it comparable to NHSSLT work. Well, my husband, anyone that knows me.
12:37:12 I have no idea about money.
12:37:16 He tells me my at an interest wrong, like
12:37:25 a little time for any more questions if anybody has any other questions but, um, thank you so much that I'm just going to stop your screen share for a moment.
12:37:45 Lots of things coming in, in the chat box people saying that they really enjoyed it. they found it really interesting.
12:37:53 And I think there's a lot of things that the kind of hugely transferable to other areas of practice I think it's a really fascinating area.
12:38:02 So, and thank you so much thank you for your time. And if you have enjoyed this today. If you've enjoyed this session. And can I ask you for two things first of all to consider making a small donation so pound or something to answer choice of charity
12:38:18 him for her time and for being so generous with the knowledge that she shares. And secondly, if you found this useful please can you tweet to let other people know that this is that this has happened, that is been useful, and to kind of raise awareness
12:38:34 channel that, and thank you very much indeed.
12:38:40 We are there's going to be no magpies webinar next month because I'm marking exams.